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Why “Civil Disobedience” Is a Game Clever People Never Play!

Posted by intellisg on July 26, 2007

civildis.jpgI am sure we’ve all considered it. One time or another, the whole idea of peaceful “civil disobedience”(CD). As an undergraduate, I remember boycotting a lecturer for a whole semester. I didn’t like the way he picked on me (real or imagined). I even made doubly sure, I studied triple hard just in case, he tried to do me in on a technicality. At the end of it, I earned a distinction and I felt vindicated. I had proven my point in empirical even scientific terms – not only did I pass. I scored a distinction! While it lasted, I was the darling of campus as a veritable Martin Luther, my distinction even acquiring the patina of Magna Carta. I had proven without a shadow of doubt, by removing myself peacefully from the “process” the “system,” he (the offending lecturer) was truly irrelevant to my destiny!

But let’s be honest. How effective is the idea of peaceful Gandhi styled CD these days? Does chucking in blogging really make a difference to the system? Is deploying the dreaded black arts of “bochapness” and “dowanlah” styled CD capable of soliciting change in people, institutions and governments these days?

I wonder….

These days you don’t have to trawl very hard in the net to come up with the endless ways people make sense of this venerated peaceful method of protesting and expressing dissatisfaction with the “system.” The “system” could be anything and anyone ranging from a firm, church, institution, service provider, regime or even the local fish monger who tried to pull a fast one on you last week. At the heart of CD is the whole idea, “I will show you. Just wait and see! I will show you!” According to Metternich, the Austrian diplomat, the whole idea of CD operates on one “overriding assumption” by removing oneself from the “system,” it serves not only as a form of protest, but to render “impotent” and “irrelevant” the system, thus “discrediting” it.

But how effective is CD as a tool of effecting change these days? Even Henry Thoreau, the father of CD admitted, “just as the long bow gave way to the crossbow, civil disobedience may not necessarily be an enduring means of soliciting change.” Juxtapose this against the internet age and it throws out long disturbing shadows about its efficacy. Yes, I know TIME magazine recently suggested the idea, the “you” has stepped out from the faceless “we” and blogging has empowered all of us with cheap printing presses in the same way Henry Ford once popularized the model T Ford. But lets get real, getting the message across needs to be seen in the right scale and perspective. For example you may blog, but so what? There are millions of blogs! Every 3.9 sec someone, somewhere in this planet is either opening or shutting down a blog! The super duper information highway is starting to look like the Robinson sale of the century. The probability of being read, let alone heard these days is roughly the same as having the chance of gaining notoriety by being a common sense expert. So what if you opt out or decide to say “nay?”

There you go, the facts stacked alongside sobering facts, now you know, you and I are truly insignificant.

What many people seem to elide whenever they argue the point: “well I am sick and tired of the system so I am going to exercise my prerogative to opt out of the system! Blah blah blah is how closely CD efficacy is linked directly and indirectly to the broader ecology of politics, economics, society and even technological trends.

This means: what used to be effective CD is just plain dumb these days. For example in the 1920’s it made perfect sense for Gandhi’s adherents who once resisted the British Empire peacefully by lying down on colonial railway tracks only because steam locomotive ran at 35 mph around bends – enough leeway for someone to shout out, pull the brake lever and still manage to brew a cup of tea and make a few chapattis. These days with maglev trains running in excess of at 450 kph, any attempt to demonstrate CD in the same way would just end up mass producing ginger bread man cookies. Not a bad option for even railway companies when you consider how bad their stocks are languishing despite the stock market boom.

My point is this: Every generation and age needs to define the best means of CD of removing oneself peaceful from the system to solicit change effectively. In ancient Egypt, slaves conscripted to build the great pyramids of Luxor faked vertigo en masse to get their over zealous overseers in hot soup by deliberately mishandling their loads to off load them in the Nile. During the 1960’s flower power became the defining rallying cry of CD galvanized mass resistance against the Vietnam war.

It begs the question: what’s the best means of peaceful CD in the internet age?

Before diving into the issue, let’s consider the brass tacks – that’s to say the deeper why’s or workings. I am not referring here to the conceptual and definitional. I know that part is sorted out. What I want to know is what’s the impact of CD these days! It’s all too easy to leap frog the first order precedent just because CD is assumed to have agency to the conviction that it must have agency!

The adage: past performance is not an indicator of future performance appears to be gaining currency when we consider CD as an effective means of bring about change. As most of us grow ever more distracted and mesmerized by mass culture – as technology continues to proliferate deeper into the collective consciousness this has an impact on the effectiveness of CD. It simply means our collective decibel tolerance has risen and even something as basic as our capacity to be “shocked” or “provoked” increases proportionally, it gets ratcheted up imperceptibly (this could be why ladies not longer suffer from fainting spells). As much as we like to believe – are we really still in touch with out sense, sensibilities and sensitivities ?– haven’t we really been anaesthetized, to the point of numbness and indifference? Yes, I do not doubt occasionally society does wake up from the dead and rally to the greater cause like the Tsunami that tore through Aceh and we do and pour out with great fanfare our hearts by even by donating a few pieces of shrapnel from our pockets to the greater good.

However for the most part hasn’t technology simply rendered CD ineffective? Because these days, it just takes more to shock us? Content isn’t king! I cannot. Not if one considers information is even competing with information as it tries to grab a slice of our diminishing aperture of consciousness. I can express this in math gobble-d-guck, but for the sake of simplicity, it just means CD these days is a victim of the “roach-spray- effect” (the more you spray us, the more we develop immunity and the larger your doses need to be!).

In fact, if we really look around the information “noise” is so loud and varied these days. Even those who have a legitimate platform to air the POV may not necessarily be heard either – if they’re really cutting through, reporters wouldn’t be gripping about lost of readership and diminishing advertising returns – politicians wouldn’t need to keep insisting at every opportunity people aren’t apathetic even to the extent of scrapping the bottom of the barrel by comparing collective political interest with party inspired grass root activities (you really need to consider is that really an apple to apple comparison?) – and of course finally, how could I possibly forget, only because they was a time, Janet Jackson tits wouldn’t be behaving like the transformers, they would behave like prim and proper Victorian tits.

The problem is simply this. The message isn’t getting through and that’s symptomatic of a larger problem –suggesting even it may be time to even consider jettisoning the whole idea of CD as a means of inspiring positive change. Experts in the field of conflict management are already beginning to register diminishing returns as they register growing disenchantment what’s called the “Iraqi paradox” in diplomatic circles – the closer you are to your goal, the lesser the returns – what we don’t really realize is CD isn’t as much a “civil” tool as it is a diplomatic crowbar that politicians have been using to leverage an advantage since statecraft was first elevated into a science – holding back on sand, prolonging negotiations, quibbling on the details, economic sanctions and trade embargos are all derivatives of higher forms of civil disobedience though even politicians and even diplomats may contend to insist otherwise. Only in these case, the power and politics of CD is conducted by highly skilled diplomats, adept in the art of court intrigues reminiscent of the French courtiers de la Versailles, but have no doubt, it’s CD only with a heady dose of eau de parfum and a gold leaf trimmings – not only does CD produce no noticeable returns. Nor does it portend or promote any meaningful sustainable evolution that even changes the attitude of governments and institutions. On the contrary, the Iraqi experience and North Korean negotiations suggest CD in the diplomatic context merely reinforces and calcifies those we wish to teach a lesson – they hit back!

The lesson it brings to the discussion of CD in our context is the growing need to consider a new approach which reflects the reality of the internet age. One that needs to  engage instead of sharpening the sense of isolation and estrangement.One that is able to bridge, clarify and harmonize instead of bracketing and sidelining controversial issues such as race and religion, which ignoring only breeds disenchantment – frequently leading to radicalism and inspiring senseless violence in the form of terrorism.

And just in case you think for one moment this is all fuzzy wuzzy, “I open my heart and you do the same and we are all generations of precious moments stuff.” Think again, the stakes are high. High enough for academics, seasoned diplomats and even the UN security council to consider pursuing this cause as a matter of strategic priority. The cavalier approach of the Bush administration and the deployment of CD in the harshest form ranging from denying opportunities to work, economic independence etc in Iraq has only served to exacerbate, alienated and sharpened the barb wires of the quagmire. If nothing it serves to illustrate in real terms CD be it as a tool used by governments or by individuals against oligarchies is diminishing as a credible force of reason.

Central to the idea is promotion of a new tool to sustain the dialogue between people and government –   “active constructive engagement.” It appears to have all the sheen of new to even suggest it’s an altogether new paradigm but it isn’t. When one considers the diminishing role of CD as being an effective facilitator of change – it brings into sharp focus much of its limits lies in not only its capacity to cut through the noise. In every case it engages only the attention and the interests of only a small, stratum of the populace. That of course leads us to consider how enlightened is this stratum? For example do bloggers see the world clearer than those who don’t blog or even bother to read blogs? Or perhaps our views about the political order and the roles and goals which we hope to play are very much products of our inwardness – hardly a credible basis to legitimize the right to change more of way of solidifying and becoming more embattled in the “we against them” mentality. And that simply ignores the broader scope of the discussion for real change.

“Active constructive engagement,” – think about it: whether they want to even listen to you? – who picks up the bill? – where do you met? – do you offer the sugar with the creamer or the other way round? Those are the small stuff, but it’s the tao of falling in love and starting your own business – never tried and lost, never to even have thrown the cusp to the wind is to lose in the language of poetry. All I know is when people really talk, something shifts, it gives, that’s when real things happen – don’t be surprise even if you happen to see the world slightly differently from the way you once saw it and that’s why smart people never engage in civil disobedience, be it chucking in blogging, giving up with a loved one, ignoring someone or resorting to just keeping stoically silent, its just dumb because we all know even a puppy can piss on the tallest building in the world and you do you really know what that really means in the greater order of things?

A big fat nothing, perhaps it’s time to for constructive engagement?

(This has been brought to you by Aurora your friendly brotherhood controller – Darkness, Cerebus, Vollariane: Why “Civil Disobedience” Is a Game Clever People Never Play! / Socio –Political  – 2007 / Extended Piece (EP 400393 – The Brotherhood Press 2007)

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20 Responses to “Why “Civil Disobedience” Is a Game Clever People Never Play!”

  1. scb said

    Civil Disobedience when conducted individually and without reasoning for doing so is like a blogger blogging on a particular subject that only he(the blogger) alone is interested in, naturally he will be the author and the only reader of his writing. Minister Vivien Balakrishnan did say something about the aforesaid when asked about the effects of the Net on local politics, I can’t help but to agree. Having said the above, I would say CD can be a very effectice tool in civil discourses when a minimun awareness is created before its'(civil disobedience) activation. If a civil disobedience that has garnered sufficient awareness and preferably sufficient participation and yet not produced a desired conclusion, it will still serves the purpose of awareness creation, so it will not be a totally futile discourse. I maybe veering off course but would reason that radicalism and revolution may and will morp from failed Civil Disobedience Discourse which ultimately morph into terrorism if the Civil Disobedience and Radicalism(Revolution) should both failed. The vicious cycle is to me as natural as Nature is and it is really a question of how pressing a situation that neccessitates such drastic measures. A very personal opinion that I harbour for sometimes is that any regime that governs that poorly(badly) resulting in its’ citizens resorting to non civil discourses deserves to go kaput(breakdown/put out of action). So, I dare say some radical actions are justifiable when all things are considered and all reasons are explored for the collective goodness.

  2. foodie said

    GM,

    After reading this great piece, I really wonder how? They really expect us all to believe Bernard Leong and Kevin Lim missed out on the brotherhood.

    http://www.singaporeangle.com/2007/07/introduction_to_singapore_soci.html

    As much as I like to believe it was an oversight. I believe there is certainly some politics of envy here.

    I for one am glad, the brotherhood, took a position, challenged the case, stated its case clearly and came to the concluded it was merely for ‘fun’, that really takes guts, leadership and it goes a long way to give us all a more accurate picture of the truth.

    I believe the BP should take this opportunity to publish more articles and take advantage of this period. This will really shame them all further. There is no better civil disobedience by showing people they world is round when they still insist it is flat.

    I am currently pursuing a P hd now in Urbana. Some of my friends and myself would really like to meet up with some of you very interesting guys. I have posted my details to the bro-line addressed personally to darkness. I really hope I get a response this time as it is my 73th attempt.

    Thank You and have a very nice day.

    Regards

    Miss Debrah Chin (Chinese Gardens)

  3. Che said

    But let’s be honest. How effective is the idea of peaceful Gandhi styled CD these days?

    And that’s why there are many intelligent people around but only one Gandhi.

    Don’t delude yourselves. Dictators answer only to power, not “constructive” dialogue.

  4. As It Is. said

    Whether CD works or not is dependent upon the prevailing environment and circumstances at a point in time. I would rather not sweepingly brush aside this particular concept of engaging the masses and challenging an authoritarian power. It was not just Ghandi who had successfully used CD. It was used by Pramoedya Ananta Toer of Indonesia, Kim Dae Jung of Korea, Shih Ming Teh of Taiwan, Benigno Aquino of the Philippines and Aung San Suu Kyi of Burma, with certain degree of success, in one form or another.

    I tend to agree that dictators only understand the language of power because of their inert nature and their ingrained believe in ruthlessness. Remember someone said: “I rather be feared than be loved.”

    What appears to be “constructive” dialogue to one side may not be accepted or taken as constructive by the other. A ruthless dictator would assume, whether constructive or not, that the opponent’s underlying motive is to overthrow him, not for the good of society, as could be suggested by the proponent. Because no dictators could nor would give up power so easily simply through “constructive” dialogues.

    Can “constructive” dialogues cripple or destroy the dictator’s power base and render him seriously weakened and unpopular so much so that he has no choice but to capitulate?

    I am not sure, I rather remain:

    AS IT IS!

  5. darkness said

    Dear New Readers,

    In life there are certain things u let slide, only bc you don’t have a choice. Others you just do, only because you were there and you hardly even have anything resembling a choice, it just happens the way, it happens. When I was a student in UK, I saw a bunch of drunkards raping a girl outside a pub, it was just a split second, there were may be 3 or 4 of them. Probably 15 others just standing there doing nothing. I walked 3 paces and I remembered saying to myself, this isn’t my business. I am just here to get an education. I am not spiderman. For goodness sake there are people who are paid to stop this shit! I can’t be expected to save the world. In between two lamp post, I did something. I didn’t even think about, it happened so fast. I grabbed brick ran to those men and whacked the biggest one again and again. When the cops came, I ran away. That night when I slipped back into my box room, I drank half a bottle of cheap liquor and ate some peanut and jam sandwich. I didn’t even know her name. I even felt real dumb about it because foreign students aren’t supposed to work to put themselves through university, what if the police hauled me up? I had one more year in this shit hole, all I had to do was stay the course. So I risked everything to save someone that meant squat to me. I didn’t even feel good about it. The following week, some of the lads in the pub got together and put up a reward to find this hero, they offered 100 pounds sterling. I needed the money, but I didn’t step forward simply because I didn’t even know why I did it and I know the English, they always want a reason – they always want to know this and that, but I just didn’t have it all, the reasons behind it all. I wish, I could say it was because I felt it was wrong and I wanted to right it, but I wasn’t even sure. It all happened so fast and I could have been the kebab I ate an hour before or maybe it was the way the light hit the puddle of water or a million other things. I just wasn’t really sure so I just stayed low. But you don’t have to go through that tunnel of doubt. You don’t have the same excuse to say like I did then. I am half confused and ambling around like a man searching for a reason to call his own to make sense why he did the things he did. How could you when you sit in the comfort of your air-con room picking the dead skin off your big toe as you read this? I didn’t even know how to pretend then, didn’t even have it all there to even begin with, the world was still all blurred around the edges let alone begin to dwell into the folds of the why-did-I-do-it? So you don’t have the same excuse as me. You know why you continue to read what we produce. So all I am asking is this, you want to continue pretending you don’t read my material when you do? Then come up with some fancy reason that you don’t even know who we are then please go. You see I have the right to say this to you, because you don’t have the same excuse as me not to know. If I really knew why I did what I did, I would have stepped right up and claimed the money and probably said what they all expected to hear, but I didn’t get half into the reasoning. That’s how a boy sees the world, he doesn’t go the full stretch, he sees something along the way and he stops and doesn’t go further –but you are not like that, you can moralize, distinguish, define and even come with a million reasons how you can read and still not be able to know who we are – do it the straight line style, open the door, walk out and keep walking and never ever look back. Let me continue the story, a few days latter this Cantonese cook came up and claimed he was the man who saved the day. You know to the English, we all look the same, so you can’t blame them. I saw it all from the corner of the pub. The whole street came out to celebrate. I didn’t even feel the slightest need to stand up and say, liar. I just looked on as if he was really the man who did it all and I even felt relieved, that was when I realized why I did it, amid the laughter, spittle, jostling, bad breathe and BO of those who carried him around like some hero. I saw a man looking straight at me, his eyes fixed like hunter, he raised his glass, it was his expression that captivated me, a look farmers wear when they look out at the end of a season, a mix of regret and hope for what has passed and what will come – it was my own reflection. Do you understand now why it must be this way from now onwards?

    I know it is confusing but it is very clear actually, when you see it from the eyes of the other man.

    PS: This does not apply to all our SLF readers so just ignore it / new meaning 2006 onwards.

  6. hiroshima said

    I think it is good that Darkness spoke. I for one thought that Brotherhood press was IS and IS was brotherhood press. And Bernard has graciously stepped back and not spend more time and sweat on this error.
    Darkness has spoken. He has made it clear that he will seriously slap people around if you seriously make that mistake again, and the comments page closed down after that. Whatever your point of view, it is good to bring it up to show who you really are, and BH has shown who they really are. I am just a guest here – and I should abide by your laws or get slapped. Darkness talked about helping a girl who was raped – and that is the type of violence on BH that I keep reading about – spaceship, declare war, aliens, girls wet between the legs – all for fun? I would prefer to read the IS aggregator without the articles from BH – Is that possible? Inpirid? but that is just my personal point of view. Best regards,

  7. dudu said

    Hiroshima,

    We all have a right to slap people for ‘fun’ and even more so on an ‘ad hoc’ basis – its called ‘happy slapping.’ My sister does it to me all the time and I do it to her as well. That really is all how all of us regard BL’s and Kevin’s shit. So go Hiroshima, no need for speeches. He is has a right to be pissed off, with even the blogging community, none of you came to their help. So go. All he is saying respect us, it is in my opinion not too much to ask, if you decide to read a man’s thoughts, he is not even asking for a thank you or you are great darkness, just a recognition he and his men exist. If you cannot even understand that then go Hiroshima.

    Dont think this is the first time he has done this. He did at least 6 times in icered.com.

    People will vote. They will decide with their keyboards, as for you Hiroshima, see you.

  8. dudu said

    I will stand with them and so will many others.

  9. dudu said

    You have to be a complete idiot to make that mistake! Only bc nothing even suggest it for one moment!

    “I for one thought that Brotherhood press was IS and IS was brotherhood press.”

    How’s that for constructive engagement? Or maybe someone needs to give you a slap to wake you up?

  10. dudu said

    When this first happened. I said OMG! I hope it doesnt become embittered like Bambi’s relationship with his church. I even remembered saying to my colleague another journailist in the next cubicle, I hope they all forgive, forget and make up.

    But deep down inside me, I knew it would come to this. Some men are just self destructive. I dont mean to say this in a malicious way, they can be really handsome, charming, exciting etc, but you just know deep down inside you, he’s going to rub the boss the wrong way. They will push him out of the system. Or he’s just not the type to stay around because, they are the sort who you just know will move on. I cant explain it, you just know deep down inside you. They’re not like those really reliable and stable average looking boring guys we know we should all marry. So when it last, it last. You take it one day at a time. Now I know why he wrote the things he did in Stalingrad and why it was written in such a strange manner and now this. I know bc, I know those guys so well. Why can they just be good, dependable and stable? Why does it have to be always like that?

  11. Dr Lim Teck Heng said

    “And Bernard has graciously stepped back and not spend more time and sweat on this error.”

    I am very sorry. I wish to differ very strongly on this point. I dont see anything “gracious” in insisting one has a right to be wrong factually even to the point of misrepresenting the truth.

    “not spending more time and sweat” simply means bochap, dowanlah (as BP wrote) or cannot be bothered – it is a reflection of how much they respect and regard the BP. They obviously have a high regard for the IS and the webmaster here, but none whatsoever for even darkness & co – dont believe me just look at the video again.

    So please slap away. After all its for fun, games and done in impromptu, ad hoc etc. Surely we cannot have double standards. Carry on.

  12. dr Chandra said

    Hiro,

    “Bernard has graciously stepped back and not spend more time and sweat on this error.”

    Sorry,

    Where was it specifically mentioned by Leong that it was an ‘error?’ Can u pls direct me to the link? I could be blind.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but they even said the BP doesnt deserve a mention bc its not technically a blog.

    OK so now we all know, there are only two classifications in blogland. OK that is real smart.

    This whole matter could have been easily resolved with ‘Okey dokey, we hear you. Point taken’ – No need for even a sorry and it would have been settled there – instead those dummies dragged their foot, pussy footed around and even decided to reinforce failure – now that is what I call really dumb.

    I have known darkness for a very long time, he’s can be unpredictable but deep inside, he’s a reasonable man. This whole business was not only unnecessary, it was stupid!

    Slap on Darkness on bc it is for fun sake.

    The Imperial College Mafia (ICM) troupe supports the FC boys on this matter completely. We are united.

    The Light

    Dr Chandra

  13. dr Chandra said

    darkness,

    You want to slap me first? Or do you mind if I start the ball rolling?

  14. prima delli said

    darkness baby,

    You know charisma and a electrically charged persona is a double edged sword. You ask many of these post 2006 readers to “do it the straight line style, open the door, walk out and keep walking and never ever look back.” They will actually do it. They will only because of your charisma and magnetic persona, I wonder. What was it all for then?

    Peace out 😦

  15. Nacramanga said

    Then why do I wonder was the term aggregator used nearly 4 times in describing the IS and the BP not even mentioned once.

    Why? THIS IS A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION!

    Darkness has spoken, he has made it very clear that if this review is even cited by the Herald Tribune. We will project, state and clarify the position, this remains our official position, but I assure no one will use it now, it is as good as the author said for fun! The risk is too high. I even have very reliable reports from our reporter friends, they will not even touch it with a barge pole! How’s that?

    Providing it remains the stuff of fun and ad hocness, that’s fine with us, but if it tries to even be serious, definitive or even referential for one minute, I will slap it down.

    We are not the PAP, you ppl can insult them no end, they just look at you like wooden figurines.

    Pls do not be confused, we are the brotherhood, we will hit you back.

    How do you like our freedom of speech now? LOL. How do you like the feel of our hand of freedom? LOL.

  16. scholarboy said

    Good Evening readers,

    I want to be neutral, but I cannot. Just to reiterate what darkness said so there’s no confusion: if it’s for ‘fun’ and conducted on an ‘ad hoc’ basis that’s OK. We don’t have an issue with it. That’s our official position! Anything goes including happy slaps.

    However, if review goes outside this ambit. It will be torpedoed, as he said it doesn’t matter whether it is the Herald Tribune or whoever who carries it. Trust me they have all lined it up. But let’s be serious what editor, academic or even subject matter expert in their right frame of mind will stake his findings on something based on fun or conducted on an ad hoc basis. It’s as good as committing suicide or destroying your career, so really the issue to me is simply this, it’s a foregone conclusion, kaput, a dead duck. However rest assured if comes out from this harbor; they will hunt it down and sink like the battleship Bismark. So I really don’t know why we keep on talking abt it again and again. Really, I don’t. The matter is closed as far as I am concerned.

  17. Iknowhiminsideout said

    Dear all,

    Many ppl fail to understand gaming is more than just a game. It has often been said a persons true colors surfaces in a game very much in the way ppl will speak only the truth when they r drunk.

    This darkness is one of the most magnetic and self destructive personalities I have ever come across in the gaming world.

    When you all ignore them. The rest will be demoralized, but not him. He will not go away. That was what his church has been doing for nearly 3 years, it doesnt work. He is still there, like Hectors ghost, strong enough to suggest it may even last for another 30 years! Instead he will take the fight directly to your door step like Achilles and he will not stop.

    But that is all in gaming, I am sure it has nothing to do with the affairs of blogosphere. I certain they are unrelated. One is after all real and the other is only a game. I am sure.

    He is Achilles.

  18. V said

    Do you really believe for one moment we ALL care what you think Hiroshima? I dont know much abt this darkness, but I have come across ppl like these bfr. Once in NS, I saw this guy cut his leg on a fall, he just stapled it grab his gun as if nothing and jalan. I dunno lah, but I think this sort of ppl have a very chiong mentally, usually their attitude is if you dont sabo me si ho wau. They expect nothing from you, but also remember, you must also expect nothing from them aso. They will hammer SA, this I can more or less 100% guarantee the only question is how, not when. This one I think pau alredi and even if every single one of us protest, they will never listen.

  19. jumanjube said

    I just want to say is this. I am a peacelover and if possible I will try to spread the word of peace to all if possible. I even once volunteered on a church mission to Thailand. I wish this whole matter can be reversed. He will fight on the rest will follow only because they know no other way. There will be no sense to it all.

    I just do not think you all realize what happens when you start to mess with their history. I really do not want to take sides, but who could possibly log on to the IS without noticing the Brotherhood is completely beyond me. As good as it appears to be a good reason for war, it isnt, God loves the peacemaker and never the war monger, but darkness is too far gone to hear even this.

    God bless all

    We lost him so many years ago, one day he was there and when I turned around he was gone.

  20. jumanjube said

    I know Bambi darkness very well, he will never ever let go. Never. Thats why its so very sad.

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